• Kelly posted an update 6 months, 3 weeks ago

    Arsenal: Wenger has to be sacked!
    Think I heard Martin Keown saying ‘Wenger is like a defeated boxer in the ring where no one is prepared to throw the towel in for him and he keeps going back for more – someone (Chairperson/owners) needs to give him a way out coz he keeps waiting for the ideal way out, which doesn’t happen’.

    Stadium half empty last night and sounded like they were rubbish. Pity, coz I think Arsenal are one of those teams with many neutral supporters, and have played some of the best footie ever in that league.

    And think I heard Ian Wright saying ‘we were told that once The Emirates was built then big cash would be available, but the club has simply become a cash cow for the shareholders/owners who are happy finishing top 4 (not likely this year !!!)

    If he doesn’t go asap, Arsenal will continue to cement their position as ‘has beens’ and could even end up not playing ANY euro footie.

    • What would you like to see Arsenal become? Trophies need to be bought these days, not earned and it’s a pretty soulless experience supporting a team that spends circa £300M per year to try and compete at the top level. This still doesn’t guarantee success, either.

      • That’s a pretty good assessment. I’m a Manchester United fan. The Fergie years were great, there is no denying that. Made better for having spirited rivals like Arsenal and Liverpool. And of course there were marquee signings but they felt special and fairly rare. One of the pundits on the radio made the point that £30 million nowadays gets you a squad player.

        It’s easy (and possibly a little lazy) to state that things are different now, but there is a correlation to spending power and position. People trot out Leicester City as an example of it being different. However that season was poor in terms of the major players, plus Leicester aren’t skint (top 20 richest clubs in the world and that was before the League win. Only 7 or 8% revenue comes from ticket receipts).

        It’s probably irreversible so fans and supporters are probably in for a period of readjustment in terms of expectation. That said a result like Wigan against Manchester City proves that there is room for a team with spirit and resolve to upset the balance. It’s a pity that the rest of the top six can’t play like that against City but I guess getting trounced with a spirited display might make the points difference between less money in the long run.

        Souless is spot on.

        • I agree entirely. And add to that the disgraceful cheating on the pitch, the bullying of the ref when decisions don’t go their way and the ridiculous earnings. Totally soulless at the moment (apart from the Leicester win) and frustrating to watch. It just feels as though the whole sport is without integrity from the top to the bottom which in the spirit of the thread is what I feel AW has, in bucket loads.

          Im a neutral fan of Arsenal and now feel its time for its Statesman manager to go, with dignity, and let someone else try and change things with a new perspective.

      • Last summer Arsenal made profit in the transfer market. I’d like to see them spend some of their massive wealth on players. They’ve bought too many duffers – so need to sort this out (one of the reasons Wenger has to go). And I’d like to see them playing as if they really meant it – bad management a key factor here (another reason Wenger has to go). And many of the fans are voting with their feet (another reason). Their business model is in danger of total failure – making profit on players but finishing outside Champions League !!

        I know what you mean about buying trophies, but I am a Wigan Latics fan and more than happy to prove you wrong on that one !!!

        • Serious question – how is it bad management re: the playing style?
          It’s brilliant what Wigan did (as a United fan you had me cheering from the rafters). But, you’ll not be bank rolling a bid for Messi anytime soon off the back of a good FA Cup run. It almost (could?) prove where the focus lies. There are trophies and there are trophies – unfortunately.

        • Buying trophies is why football is the new wrestling – it’s entertainment but it’s not sport. Just like you sit there in a Bond film routing for 007 to win, but really he always does. The outcomes are predictable. Can’t see why the average person wastes any time, money or effort on professional football. Plenty of good sport available these days.

          Football, like the stock market, is just a money game – no longer tied to it’s original purpose.

      • Here is an example of money in football.

        We have a world cup being held in Quatar. We hear of human rights violations and workers dying on a regular basis. Its basically the land that time forgot.

        We have a top level manager in Pep Guardiola being held up as a shining light for his support of the Barcalona independence fight wearing his (Totally against the rules) yellow ribbon.

        Guess who is one of the top ambassadors for Quatar for the world cup.

        Its all money!!

    • As a neutral I’d say Wenger was brilliant when he arrived and did much to singlehandedly transform the culture of the game but now he seems to have run out of steam and should leave with whatever dignity he has left intact. I feel genuine pity for a guy who has outstayed his time and either won’t or can’t acknowledge that. Contrast it with Alex Ferguson’s departure with a league title in his pocket. That was the way to go.

      As for the club being happy to finish Top Four I think most are. Football is now a business not a sport for the owners and it’s a cost-benefit analysis. Third place brings automatic Champion’s League, big pay days, six games guaranteed with potential for more and helps to lure marquee signings who will put bums on seats and help to secure CL next season to keep the cash flowing. So well worth having. Does the extra cost of buying players at today’s prices – always a gamble – in the hope of perhaps winning the Premiership justify the additional return?

      PS Leicester don’t count in terms of this argument despite their giving many of us such a brilliant moment

    • Wonder who they would get to replace him?

    • Arsenal still a quality side and Wenger a top coach, but every now and again a special team comes along and some City fans have been waiting 50 years for this! Arsenal just been unlucky to get them twice in a week when they look to be finding top form.

      Nothing Wenger could have done I don’t think….C’mon City!!

    • You would think, as a spurs fan, I would be happy at seeing what is happening at Arsenal. I’m not though. Because Arsenal, alongside Spurs and Liverpool should be the models of what modern football clubs are built on. Unfortunately, they are now selling their souls to investors who see millionaires as paupers.

      There are hundreds of different sides to this. Fans paying sky tv’s ludicrous costs to watch matches. Clubs underhand activities tapping up players (Arsenal started the rot stealing Campbell from Spurs and almost tripling the highest wages in the league overnight because they got him for free so they can do one when they start losing players because other clubs pay more).

      The thing is Arsenal have been run very well and had hundreds of millions in the bank up until recently which they were justifiably proud of and Wenger protected like it was his own. Unfortunately over the last 2-3yrs Manchester Utd & City have shown that they can spend that and more in one transfer window. Hell Harry Kane is worth probably their entire bank reserves built over the last decade. I say this out of pity, not gloating.

      As some have indicated, we better get used to it. Spurs are in the middle of £100b stadium build and they will need every bit of corporate money to fund it so the real fans will come a distant second.

      Wenger has been a true great for them and deserves to leave with dignity but he must leave soon or all his good work will be forgotten. I don’t worry about them as a club so much going forward as they just don’t have the financial pull to compete with the really big boys and I am happy to compete with them as a club of similar size. TBH I would be happy if the two Manchester clubs buggered off to a European league. The PL would be better for it.

      My advice is pick yourself a well run, lower league team who shows a bit of ambition and support them.

    • Maybe he’s waiting to be sacked so he can use Ron Atkinson’s old line when he got the bullet at Man U. “I leave as I arrived – fired with enthusiasm”

      • Wenger inherited George Graham’s iron-hard defence plus Dennis Bergkamp. Once these essential parts of the team were retired he had no plan for replacing them. Admittedly he bought into the vision of a new stadium which increased the revenue stream but he has been timid in the transfer market. Apart from Shankly, Paisley and Ferguson every manager seems to run out of inspiration and thus signal the time to bring down the final curtain.

        • It’s fair to say that Wenger, with the honourable exceptions of Campbell and Kosczelny (sp?) has always come up short on defenders but he followed Bergkamp with

          Thierry Henri, Robert Pires, Manu Petit, Patrick Viera, Freddie Ljundberg, Fabregas

          Hardly unproductive signings

        • I couldn’t have said it better myself!

          As an Arsenal fan of a long-time standing, I crave the defensive toughness and counter-attacking speed of the George Graham teams. I feel very disorientated watching Arsenal these days (unlike when I first followed Arsenal seriously in the late 80s). Wenger did do well for his first decade as manager but ran out of steam years ago. He has made very few good decisions at all about the defence since the break-up of the great Spunky/Dixon/Nige/Donkey Adams/Martin Keown (or Bouldy) defence.

    • Wenger should have done the sensible thing in a May .and retired.

      and the owners were much too soft when agreeing to let him carry on.

      Arsene either doesn’t have a retirement vineyard to potter around on ,or he stubbornly believes he can produce another team capable of challenging.

      His players don’t do nearly enough. Welbeck was terrible the other night and little Jack Wilshere is not the future.

    • No! And here’s why:

      A) Wenger is easily the most interesting manager in the Premier League. Even though he is not really likeable I find myself really liking him. Arguably he presided over the most beautiful football ever played in the UK. He is part of the culture of our football – if we lose him we will miss him.

      B) It would be very unwise to suppose his replacement could improve Arsenal’s status without some significant change in spending on the team. According to no less a source than the Daily Star (sorry, it was the first google hit and I am lazy) over the last 10 years these are the top premier league transfer spending clubs:

      1. Man City

      2. Man Utd

      3. Chelsea

      4. Liverpool

      5. Tottenham

      6. Arsenal

      The relationship between spending and success seems clear, and on this (slightly shaky) basis, one could say that Arsenal have consistently over-performed given that they’ve averaged 3rd over the last 10 years or so – get a new manger and they may average 6th.

      PS I have no interests to declare.

    • What is strange is how stubborn he is.

      His best team was great, but it was hard. Even the flare players like Bergkamp and Henry had that bit of Devil in them. But their Spine was hard, they went out and won the fight then won the game with great soccer.

      For the last decade there has been no spine, no good keeper, no hard center half, no dominant midfielder.. just countless small flare players.

      I think he’s got to go. He had great teams but its been almost 15 years since they were a genuine force.

      • The money players earn is often cited, sometimes lazily, as a reason why that fight or spirit has been lost. Back in the day when your profile dictated earnings, a stellar cup run or a winning team was the zenith upon which you got known and got to dictate somewhat, your worth.

        Now even very average players have image rights, boot deals and endorsements on top of fantastic wages, without some of them really having to prove too much.

        I’m not suggesting a regression to the pre Jimmy Hill days, and fair play to those on the sort of money which means they’re set for life, but when mediocre equals millions there isn’t, as far as I can see, the incentive to be the best.